Comments on: Reclaiming 2012 and The Problem With Saving the World http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/ Gnosticism, Forteana, fun and more from a modern Gnostic Minister. Formerly "Fantastic Planet." The opinions expressed hereon are solely those of the author, and do not represent the opinions of The Palm Tree Garden Gnostic Community. Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:06:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3 By: tim boucher http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-229 tim boucher Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:27:52 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-229 Just to be clear, I don't personally think Pinchbeck is a "jerk". I get what he is trying to do and I am interested in making peace with him and joining forces because I think we are all placing value in the same things: knowledge of self, the ability to form joyous relationships, and the importance of taking right action! I have had my differences with him in the past but am trying to move on - which, honestly, has meant that I have needed to get over myself, and those things about *me* which he was only reflecting... Just to be clear, I don’t personally think Pinchbeck is a “jerk”. I get what he is trying to do and I am interested in making peace with him and joining forces because I think we are all placing value in the same things: knowledge of self, the ability to form joyous relationships, and the importance of taking right action! I have had my differences with him in the past but am trying to move on - which, honestly, has meant that I have needed to get over myself, and those things about *me* which he was only reflecting…

]]> By: tim boucher http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-230 tim boucher Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:30:42 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-230 "His Love™" Hey, that's my trademarked phrase! Now you owe me royalties! “His Love™”

Hey, that’s my trademarked phrase! Now you owe me royalties!

]]> By: JP http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-231 JP Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:39:12 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-231 <i>Just to be clear, I don’t personally think Pinchbeck is a “jerk”.</i> Hey that's noble of you. When it comes down to it, I don't think he *is* a jerk, either. I think he sure as hell acts like one, though. O' course, I do, too. <i>Hey, that’s my trademarked phrase! Now you owe me royalties!</i> Heh, how about I pay you your royalties in preserved asian pears. I'll bring you a jar before you go. Just to be clear, I don’t personally think Pinchbeck is a “jerk”.
Hey that’s noble of you. When it comes down to it, I don’t think he *is* a jerk, either. I think he sure as hell acts like one, though. O’ course, I do, too.

Hey, that’s my trademarked phrase! Now you owe me royalties!
Heh, how about I pay you your royalties in preserved asian pears. I’ll bring you a jar before you go.

]]> By: tim boucher http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-232 tim boucher Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:55:02 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-232 Preserved Asian pears sounds awesome! Interesting point though you've brought up: if you act like a jerk, does that make you a jerk? Alternately, if you *think* someone is a jerk, does your conception of them limit your perception of them? That is, what's the best way to give yourself and other people the space to change? Preserved Asian pears sounds awesome!

Interesting point though you’ve brought up: if you act like a jerk, does that make you a jerk? Alternately, if you *think* someone is a jerk, does your conception of them limit your perception of them? That is, what’s the best way to give yourself and other people the space to change?

]]> By: Donald Donato http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-234 Donald Donato Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:17:07 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-234 You nearly ruined a perfectly clean pair of sweatpants with these hijinks...and leave Cagliostro out of this :) Is "The Magic Christian" worth buying for the library? Never saw it. Sounds splendid. You nearly ruined a perfectly clean pair of sweatpants with these hijinks…and leave Cagliostro out of this :) Is “The Magic Christian” worth buying for the library? Never saw it. Sounds splendid.

]]> By: Borther Prenna http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-235 Borther Prenna Fri, 21 Sep 2007 01:34:23 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-235 There's a part of me that wonders if Pinchbeck (and the rest of the psychedelic community) will be proved partially right by accident. Maybe on that particular day of that particular year so many people are going to be guzzling ayahuasca, dropping acid, or racing through the 2C series, that some manner of mass awakening will happen. The psychedelic gurus have to be worried about this awakening letting everyone seen through the illusion of their guru-hood. There’s a part of me that wonders if Pinchbeck (and the rest of the psychedelic community) will be proved partially right by accident. Maybe on that particular day of that particular year so many people are going to be guzzling ayahuasca, dropping acid, or racing through the 2C series, that some manner of mass awakening will happen.

The psychedelic gurus have to be worried about this awakening letting everyone seen through the illusion of their guru-hood.

]]> By: Emperor http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-236 Emperor Fri, 21 Sep 2007 02:33:40 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-236 Interesting thoughts. A while back I looked at 2012 (and our appropriation of a complex Mayan calendar system which I assume was once full of symbolism and metaphor): www.wunderkabinett.co.uk/damndata/index.php?/archives/178-2012-It-aint-what-it-used-to-be.html And also looked at Pinchbeck: www.wunderkabinett.co.uk/damndata/index.php?/archives/316-The-Feathered-Boa-makes-a-comeback.html And the whole 2012 business was on my mind in relation to the "war" between him and Whiltey Strieber: www.realitysandwich.com/node/516 www.unknowncountry.com/journal/?id=300 Although I find myself unimpressed by either I think Pinchbeck's point is an interesting one - Strieber's book: www.beyondcommunion.com/2012.html is a heady brew - this from Publisher Weekly: -- Strieber's epic sequel to 2006's The Grays blends equal parts science fiction thriller, supernatural horror and provocative spiritual speculation. As struggling author Wylie Dale works on his latest novel, which revolves around an upcoming date when the earth crosses both the galactic equator and the solar ecliptic—a time that the Maya predicted would mark the cataclysmic end of this age—he begins to uncover evidence that what he's writing about is actually happening on a parallel earth. If nothing is done, on December 21, 2012, gateways will open into this world and reptilian invaders will not only enslave humanity but feast on their succulent souls as well. While Strieber's exploration into the existence and import of the soul isn't exactly profound, it is wildly entertaining. Fans of apocalyptic page-turners like King's The Stand and Niven and Pournelle's Lucifer's Hammer will enjoy this ambitious—and audacious—tale as it invokes everything from rectal probes and Ann Coulter to the destruction of the Great Pyramid of Giza. -- Distinctly Ickian in tone and thought what Pinchbeck had to say was interesting: -- Therefore, if we focus our intention on negative outcomes, we may help to bring those outcomes into manifestation. Strieber has no basis to proclaim that a massive die off is imminent, since none of us are given to know the future ahead of us, and conditions change constantly. He is acting as a “prophet of doom” when he proclaims this, not a realist. He is projecting the negative, shadow aspects of his own psyche into the collective consciousness of his audience, on a daily basis. Instead of fear-mongering, he could be utilizing his public platform to spread information on plans that would ameliorate the effects of climate change and peak oil, restore wilderness areas to offset the species extinction crisis, and so on. -- I think we have to accept that there is already a landgrab taking place for 2012 and this will only accelerate over the next five years leading to something akin to Pre-Millennial Tension across a wide swathe of the alternative field. Obviously we can ignore them and let them stew in their own juices but there will be a lot of negativity and wild ideas spewing out that a lot of people are going to thinking it isn't worth addressing the pressing problems and the next five years could be critical in addressing such things. So you are exactly right with the idea we should "reclaim 2012" - point out the logical fallacies, make sure we point out bullshit when we see it and highlight the generally defeatist attitudes doing the rounds, while keeping people's focus on the important issues that need addressing because it is high unlikely the world will end, making will transcend or things will go seriously round the bend. We don't want to wake up on December 22nd 2012 to find the world just where we left it - in a mess, because everyone took their eye off the ball. Interesting thoughts.

A while back I looked at 2012 (and our appropriation of a complex Mayan calendar system which I assume was once full of symbolism and metaphor):
www.wunderkabinett.co.uk/damndata/index.php?/archives/178-2012-It-aint-what-it-used-to-be.html

And also looked at Pinchbeck:
www.wunderkabinett.co.uk/damndata/index.php?/archives/316-The-Feathered-Boa-makes-a-comeback.html

And the whole 2012 business was on my mind in relation to the “war” between him and Whiltey Strieber:

www.realitysandwich.com/node/516
www.unknowncountry.com/journal/?id=300

Although I find myself unimpressed by either I think Pinchbeck’s point is an interesting one - Strieber’s book:

www.beyondcommunion.com/2012.html

is a heady brew - this from Publisher Weekly:

–
Strieber’s epic sequel to 2006’s The Grays blends equal parts science fiction thriller, supernatural horror and provocative spiritual speculation. As struggling author Wylie Dale works on his latest novel, which revolves around an upcoming date when the earth crosses both the galactic equator and the solar ecliptic—a time that the Maya predicted would mark the cataclysmic end of this age—he begins to uncover evidence that what he’s writing about is actually happening on a parallel earth. If nothing is done, on December 21, 2012, gateways will open into this world and reptilian invaders will not only enslave humanity but feast on their succulent souls as well. While Strieber’s exploration into the existence and import of the soul isn’t exactly profound, it is wildly entertaining. Fans of apocalyptic page-turners like King’s The Stand and Niven and Pournelle’s Lucifer’s Hammer will enjoy this ambitious—and audacious—tale as it invokes everything from rectal probes and Ann Coulter to the destruction of the Great Pyramid of Giza.
–

Distinctly Ickian in tone and thought what Pinchbeck had to say was interesting:

–
Therefore, if we focus our intention on negative outcomes, we may help to bring those outcomes into manifestation. Strieber has no basis to proclaim that a massive die off is imminent, since none of us are given to know the future ahead of us, and conditions change constantly. He is acting as a “prophet of doom” when he proclaims this, not a realist. He is projecting the negative, shadow aspects of his own psyche into the collective consciousness of his audience, on a daily basis. Instead of fear-mongering, he could be utilizing his public platform to spread information on plans that would ameliorate the effects of climate change and peak oil, restore wilderness areas to offset the species extinction crisis, and so on.
–

I think we have to accept that there is already a landgrab taking place for 2012 and this will only accelerate over the next five years leading to something akin to Pre-Millennial Tension across a wide swathe of the alternative field.

Obviously we can ignore them and let them stew in their own juices but there will be a lot of negativity and wild ideas spewing out that a lot of people are going to thinking it isn’t worth addressing the pressing problems and the next five years could be critical in addressing such things.

So you are exactly right with the idea we should “reclaim 2012″ - point out the logical fallacies, make sure we point out bullshit when we see it and highlight the generally defeatist attitudes doing the rounds, while keeping people’s focus on the important issues that need addressing because it is high unlikely the world will end, making will transcend or things will go seriously round the bend.

We don’t want to wake up on December 22nd 2012 to find the world just where we left it - in a mess, because everyone took their eye off the ball.

]]> By: tim boucher http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-238 tim boucher Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:59:21 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-238 Who creates the calendar system, the people or the empire? Who creates the calendar system, the people or the empire?

]]> By: Kuahine http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-239 Kuahine Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:50:43 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-239 If you were trying to use the British spelling, the word is "logorrhoeic." If you'd prefer to use the American spelling, the word is "logorrheic." In any case, Jeremy, there's no such word as "logorrhoeac." And really, this adjective should be used only in a negative or critical context. It certainly doesn't describes somethin "brilliant"; only something pathological, compulsive, tiresome, annoying. Just FYI. If you were trying to use the British spelling, the word is “logorrhoeic.” If you’d prefer to use the American spelling, the word is “logorrheic.”

In any case, Jeremy, there’s no such word as “logorrhoeac.” And really, this adjective should be used only in a negative or critical context. It certainly doesn’t describes somethin “brilliant”; only something pathological, compulsive, tiresome, annoying.

Just FYI.

]]> By: JP http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-240 JP Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:36:23 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-240 <b>DD: "Is “The Magic Christian” worth buying for the library?"</b> Oh HECK yes. It's probably the funniest movie most people have never seen, imho. Some people find it dated and/or too over-the-top, but I personally can't recommend it highly enough. <b>Prenna: "There’s a part of me that wonders if Pinchbeck (and the rest of the psychedelic community) will be proved partially right by accident. Maybe on that particular day of that particular year so many people are going to be guzzling ayahuasca, dropping acid, or racing through the 2C series, that some manner of mass awakening will happen.</b> I'm totally open to a 'self-fulfilling prophecy' kinda scenario, but I have reservations about that, too. For one, I think it's easy for those of us in the Echo Chamber to forget that our little alternative universe is just that: little and alternative. For the kind of mass changes these folks are predicting to occur, it's going to take a huge miracle that includes billions of middle-class non-acid heads, the exact kind of folks who aren't as likely to try ayahuasca or read Pinchbeck. <b>Emperor: "And the whole 2012 business was on my mind in relation to the “war” between him and Whiltey Strieber"</b> Yeah, I noticed that, too. But that's part of my point. If you walk up to your average individual and say, "hey, which side of the Ultraterrestrial fence do you come down on, the pro-grey Streiberian or pro-reptilian Pinchbeckian?", they're likely to look at you and make a twirly motion next to their ear. In the scheme of things, the 'war' between Streiber or Pinchbeck is totally moot to the persons who would be most affected by any kind of 'change.' <b>Tim: Who creates the calendar system, the people or the empire?</b> That's a great question, and something else it's difficult to say b/c so much of the info concerning the system was destroyed by the conquistadors and their followers. It was almost undoubtedly exclusively studied and interpreted by the priestly caste, but as to how or why it developed, we just don't have the info. I think it'd be a fair assessment to assign the creation & distribution of the calendar trope to Empire when it became codified, but before that it was likely just like other calendars, and based on observations made by everybody. DD: “Is “The Magic Christian” worth buying for the library?”
Oh HECK yes. It’s probably the funniest movie most people have never seen, imho. Some people find it dated and/or too over-the-top, but I personally can’t recommend it highly enough.
Prenna: “There’s a part of me that wonders if Pinchbeck (and the rest of the psychedelic community) will be proved partially right by accident. Maybe on that particular day of that particular year so many people are going to be guzzling ayahuasca, dropping acid, or racing through the 2C series, that some manner of mass awakening will happen.
I’m totally open to a ’self-fulfilling prophecy’ kinda scenario, but I have reservations about that, too. For one, I think it’s easy for those of us in the Echo Chamber to forget that our little alternative universe is just that: little and alternative. For the kind of mass changes these folks are predicting to occur, it’s going to take a huge miracle that includes billions of middle-class non-acid heads, the exact kind of folks who aren’t as likely to try ayahuasca or read Pinchbeck.
Emperor: “And the whole 2012 business was on my mind in relation to the “war” between him and Whiltey Strieber”
Yeah, I noticed that, too. But that’s part of my point. If you walk up to your average individual and say, “hey, which side of the Ultraterrestrial fence do you come down on, the pro-grey Streiberian or pro-reptilian Pinchbeckian?”, they’re likely to look at you and make a twirly motion next to their ear. In the scheme of things, the ‘war’ between Streiber or Pinchbeck is totally moot to the persons who would be most affected by any kind of ‘change.’
Tim: Who creates the calendar system, the people or the empire?
That’s a great question, and something else it’s difficult to say b/c so much of the info concerning the system was destroyed by the conquistadors and their followers. It was almost undoubtedly exclusively studied and interpreted by the priestly caste, but as to how or why it developed, we just don’t have the info. I think it’d be a fair assessment to assign the creation & distribution of the calendar trope to Empire when it became codified, but before that it was likely just like other calendars, and based on observations made by everybody.

]]> By: JP http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-241 JP Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:01:04 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-241 <b>Kuahine: In any case, Jeremy, there’s no such word as “logorrhoeac.” And really, this adjective should be used only in a negative or critical context. It certainly doesn’t describes somethin “brilliant”; only something pathological, compulsive, tiresome, annoying.</b> Hey, um, wow, okay.... Kuahine: In any case, Jeremy, there’s no such word as “logorrhoeac.” And really, this adjective should be used only in a negative or critical context. It certainly doesn’t describes somethin “brilliant”; only something pathological, compulsive, tiresome, annoying.

Hey, um, wow, okay….

]]> By: Emperor http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-242 Emperor Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:19:08 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-242 If one were going to be cynical you could suggest that this "war" has largely worked to boost the profile of both of their books and shift a few more units. In fact an even more cynical viewpoint could be that they are trying to position themselves as the two sides of the debate (and shift more units in the process) when they are little more than a sideshow. I'm just grateful I'm not a cynic. But still... ;) One thing that did strike me is that are actually pretty similar - they have had contact with something strange and potentially been lead astray by what they've been told (and done quite nicely out of it - but that would be returning to the cynical interpretation). If one were going to be cynical you could suggest that this “war” has largely worked to boost the profile of both of their books and shift a few more units. In fact an even more cynical viewpoint could be that they are trying to position themselves as the two sides of the debate (and shift more units in the process) when they are little more than a sideshow.

I’m just grateful I’m not a cynic. But still… ;)

One thing that did strike me is that are actually pretty similar - they have had contact with something strange and potentially been lead astray by what they’ve been told (and done quite nicely out of it - but that would be returning to the cynical interpretation).

]]> By: cadeveo http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-248 cadeveo Mon, 24 Sep 2007 05:16:20 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-248 2012 may really be 2012, just not how people expected. Of course, every day, like Tim's noted, is 2012, if you're ready for it. I think it's like the idea of the eternal recurrence. Maybe in a long-scale cosmological sense, it's true...but where it most concerns folks who are actually living is in the micro-sense. If you constantly do the same habitual shit, then the same habitual shit keeps happening and it really does feel like it has all happened before and will all happen again...because it has...and it will...until you (and by you and mean me!) change. Then you step out of time and out of the loop like Bill Murray at the end of Groundhog's Day. 2012, to me, is just like that. Yeah, shits gonna go down and there's gonna be crazy change and peace and light and rainbows...because everyone dies and so everyone, eventually, has to let go and the process of letting go is the crazy shit and the having done so is the peace and light and rainbows bit. If *you* (the fake you you only think is you) manage to *die* in that way before *you* die physically, then you'll have worked through the pre-"2012" horror-show and have the "2012" love-fest right here and now. And, if one manages to do that, then perhaps it will appear that there's been a massive "raising of consciousness" "2012 singularity/woo-woo thing" all around you because now you're seeing everyone and everything around you much, more clearly as they are... 2012 may really be 2012, just not how people expected. Of course, every day, like Tim’s noted, is 2012, if you’re ready for it. I think it’s like the idea of the eternal recurrence. Maybe in a long-scale cosmological sense, it’s true…but where it most concerns folks who are actually living is in the micro-sense. If you constantly do the same habitual shit, then the same habitual shit keeps happening and it really does feel like it has all happened before and will all happen again…because it has…and it will…until you (and by you and mean me!) change. Then you step out of time and out of the loop like Bill Murray at the end of Groundhog’s Day.
2012, to me, is just like that. Yeah, shits gonna go down and there’s gonna be crazy change and peace and light and rainbows…because everyone dies and so everyone, eventually, has to let go and the process of letting go is the crazy shit and the having done so is the peace and light and rainbows bit. If *you* (the fake you you only think is you) manage to *die* in that way before *you* die physically, then you’ll have worked through the pre-”2012″ horror-show and have the “2012″ love-fest right here and now. And, if one manages to do that, then perhaps it will appear that there’s been a massive “raising of consciousness” “2012 singularity/woo-woo thing” all around you because now you’re seeing everyone and everything around you much, more clearly as they are…

]]> By: The Necromancer http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-249 The Necromancer Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:35:30 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-249 Thoughtful post. <a href="http://thenecromancer.wordpress.com/2006/12/15/synchronicity-orthe-occult-daniel-pinchbeck-and-me/" rel="nofollow">I wrote about Pinchbeck</a> a while back too (if you'll forgive the shameless plug...). He is, I suspect, a victim of his own success. I think from our (my?) perspective he should somehow be more saintly -- ascetic. But maybe that's just what it takes. Or not. Thoughtful post. I wrote about Pinchbeck a while back too (if you’ll forgive the shameless plug…). He is, I suspect, a victim of his own success. I think from our (my?) perspective he should somehow be more saintly — ascetic. But maybe that’s just what it takes. Or not.

]]> By: Summer Harvest » Happy Day of Creation! http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-318 Summer Harvest » Happy Day of Creation! Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:43:13 +0000 http://www.palmtreegarden.org/fp/2007/09/20/reclaiming-2012-and-the-problem-with-saving-the-world/#comment-318 [...] funny thing is, this is the same logic used in certain *ahem* “circles” to calculate an end-date for the cosmos of December 22, 2012. Where’s the equal opportunity [...] […] funny thing is, this is the same logic used in certain *ahem* “circles” to calculate an end-date for the cosmos of December 22, 2012. Where’s the equal opportunity […]

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